Curse

Sergio Leone · Dec 19, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

This is only one of quite a few things about this game that make me not love it, the level cap. I believe that the fact that the level cap is 20 causes so much lack of difficulty.

Example : I have a friend who has been playing WoW (yes another WoW reference, shocker) for around 2 months on one character and is around level 40. He has multiple characters and from what I understand playing with each is VASTLY different from playing with say your Monk and Warrior through identical missions over and over. In WoW there is such a longer span of time to get level 60 and then once you get there you aren't done! You continue on for a long time and get to some of the real fun stuff. Now the reason the level cap matters is because since we are so low we can't raise it much higher than our own level or else we are screwed. The level cap also ties into group maximum's of 8 and towns and outposts as opposed to a never ending world. We can't take 200 alliance members to kill this level 50 boss (Keeping our cap at 20) which also makes it tough to implement much difficulty.

I personally don't believe that there is any "Young factor" as far as the actual game play difficulty goes (ask me about game play itself and how youngsters fit in there for a different drawn out story) I think it has to do with poor game mechanics with Guild Wars, but can't complain because we aren't paying monthly

My tip - Try WoW or some other Monthly fee'd MMO.

*Darcy* · Dec 19, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

@OP - there are many other threads along these lines and the general consensus is that as you become more skilled in playing the game, you need to create your own challenges.

If a character has completed all the chapters, take him through again with a different build . Examples: change your warrior to a hammer, your monk from protection or healing to a smiter. If you normally hench quests, then take the time to join parties (the upcoming party forming update should help cut down the time required).

@the grammar police - the OP asked for grammar/spelling corrections so he could learn. As most of his errors would not be caught by a spellcheck program (they are spelled correctly, just not the correct word for the sentence), you might want to consider that English is not his native language before insulting him.

Navaros · Dec 19, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Agree with OP that all 3 Guild Wars games are way, way way too easy.

But, I do not see how this at all relates to "young people".

I'm sure "old people" suck at the game just as much as "young people" do. The problem is with most people in general sucking at the game regardless of age.

cellardweller · Dec 19, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by impression

...

GW is never too easy for anyone, but it can be too hard for some. If a player is having difficulty finishing an area, there's nothing they can do about it (assuming they are playing to the best of thier ability), but if you're finding the game to easy there's plenty you can do.

If on the other hand, you are breezing though the game, you are perfectly capable of making it harder. Is gates of madness still easy when you're playing in a group of 4 insteady of 8? How about in Kamadan armour? Still too easy, try with white weapons? How about only 6 skills and no res's?

If you think the game isn't interesting because its not hard enough, its only because you lack the creativity to make it so.

Quid Pro Quo · Dec 19, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

How about only 6 skills and no res's?

If you think the game isn't interesting because its not hard enough, its only because you lack the creativity to make it so.

Maybe solo, no skills, no armor, no weapon and only 2 directional buttons?

Sorry but thats a bit rediculous. How about instead of making ourselves weak we buff the enemies in more ways then just large ammounts of damage? How about giving them more skills, secondarys and even certain combat patterns to confuse the player?

The player should constantly be adapting to their enviroment and becoming increasingly more skilled. That was their original plan and I think they should continue with it. We shouldn't be self gimping and the NPCs shouldn't just put our more damage and take almost none to the point where everything one shots the player while taking at a max 1 damage per hit. Make battles more intrestingly challenging not just frustratingly.

impression · Dec 19, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Bashing my gramar instead of comenting, or bashing if you preferer, my message says alot about you ...

And iam not bashing ANet. I never said that I din't enjoy the game, that ANet should change something or any thing like that. Iam just saying that, from my point of view some of the game design choices made by ANet recently is making me and other players to get "bored" with the new content relativly fast and, I sugest that they look to the original game design and take it in considiration in future chapters.

And I agree with Lord Ra. Factions and Night Fall, contrary to Prophecies, are a bit to "closed" and "linear" as they restrict to much what a player can do at a given time.

As for the player age issue that has ben raised, I was unhappy in labeling this group of players that whan't the game (any game, not specificaly GW) to become easyer instead of trying to overcome the chanleges of it, "Young people". For that, Iam sorry.

As for the casual player, I generally play 2 to 3 hours a day what makes me a casual player I think. Or not?

It was sugested that I should make my on chalenges, and yes I have put up some chanleges to my self. But, I think that the game should provide the chanleges, or at least make it easy to get them, as beating a chalenge made by some one else is more rewarding than beating your own chalenges

.

I reinterate here that this thread reflects my views about the PvE aspect of the game, Iam happy with the PvP part of the game.

Please keep on topic and make valid observations or don't bother to write meanless posts.

Swamprob · Dec 19, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

I think you should be wary of some of the generalizations you make. In my experience in anything online, age and maturity do not have a lot in common. Also, if you completed as much as you said you did in a week, I'd call that hardcore playing.
Difficulty is relative. I have been playing computer games for around 3 decades and I am hardly a l33t player. I don't like difficult games. I hate repeating a quest or a mission multiple times. If I can go through an entire game and only die a few times to the very toughest missions/bosses, that's fine with me.
As for challenging missions/quests, once someone figures them out, they post a walkthru, and then it's just push the buttons in the order suggested. What I think these online games ALL need is a huge randomly generated, treasured, spawned, and walled dungeon or two. Randomly placed bosses, chests and traps would rock. This would be end game content that could never be learned, mapped or mastered cause it would never be the same twice. This is something that I think could keep the endgame masses entertained and refreshed for longer.

arcanemacabre · Dec 19, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by impression

As for the casual player, I generally play 2 to 3 hours a day what makes me a casual player I think. Or not?

The difference between a casual player and a hardcore player is not an issue of time played. It's all about attitude.

Hardcore player: You live and breathe GW. When you're playing, it's all business. You don't accept anything less than perfect from yourself and others that you play with. You either consider yourself to have the best equipment and builds, or you're constantly working toward that goal.

Casual player: GW is your stress relief, your relax time. You consider the game a getaway from everyday life. When playing, it's all about the fun. Overcoming challenges is fun, but so is mixing dyes, chatting, goofing off, exploring, etc.

Now, not everyone falls into strictly one category or the other, but that is, at least IMO, the basic rundown of the two. Me? I'm a casual player, completely. Maybe you just need to step back, and take a different look at it all.

As far as challenging yourself... in MMOs, that's the only way to play. Sure, GW isn't exactly an MMO, but that's where the confusion sets in. All the way through GW, the storyline holds your hand, and directs you to the next area, and the next boss... all the way to the end. You're given a long hallway and instructed to walk down it. Once you reach the end, you're now like: "Well, what now?"

In most MMOs, you're given a small introduction into the story, then dropped into the middle of a world. You have to then scavenge and find your own adventures, giving the illusion of pure freedom, with all sorts of possibilities. The only real difference (besides the instanced zones) is that there are no illusions in GW. You must follow that path to the end in order to have the eventual freedom.

But, you see, you do have that freedom at the end. It then becomes just like any other MMO, where you must challenge yourself. I think it's perfect. I love it.

lg5000 · Dec 19, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

To the OP

You have a point, I'd say most of us have found that the first chapter was the hardest.. at the time.

Remember when Devourers in Ascalon owned us? Now that we know the controls and understand the basics of the game, they are no longer a threat. In the same manner, i'm guessing that we found the next two chapters easier, simply because we understand the basics of what we're doing.

In that respect, its not about younger or older players playing.

Thallandor · Dec 19, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I am an "older player" who like "younger players" as well....

/evil grin and rubs palms.

Jking...and no i am not a priest by profession.

What was this thread about again?

"young players" complaining the game too hard. too much grind? I think its quite the opposite since these factors mainly affect casual players who are adults with real jobs/or whatever they are doing. Its the schooling kids that have all the time in the world to play the game and become Hardcore and show the world how leet they are.

I am not sure if this discussion of older/younger player's mentality is valid at all since we all know that inorder to appeal GW to new players to buy the game, it has to appear to be newbie friendy and sadly if the interests of the hardcore players dims because of this, its a pity since Chapters need to sell inorder for us to keep playing and just selling the game to the hardcore (maybe i dont know...10%?) of the population just wont cut it.

No matter how we want to look at this, the model has to accomodate and reach wider audiences even causals and what not to remain profitable for the product to be viable in the long run. Its not so much about how much whining and Anet giving in to "younger players" as suggested by the OP.

cellardweller · Dec 19, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quid Pro Quo

Maybe solo, no skills, no armor, no weapon and only 2 directional buttons?

Sorry but thats a bit rediculous. How about instead of making ourselves weak we buff the enemies in more ways then just large ammounts of damage? How about giving them more skills, secondarys and even certain combat patterns to confuse the player?

The player should constantly be adapting to their enviroment and becoming increasingly more skilled. That was their original plan and I think they should continue with it. We shouldn't be self gimping and the NPCs shouldn't just put our more damage and take almost none to the point where everything one shots the player while taking at a max 1 damage per hit. Make battles more intrestingly challenging not just frustratingly.

If thats what it takes to make the game interesting for the people who say "its all too easy". But you and I agree, the comment was in regards to those that say DoA is the only place thats hard enough. DoA isn't hard its just annoying. The difficulty of the area is exactly the same doing as RoT in starter armour with white weapons, and is only completable by using exploits.

Thom · Dec 19, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

I play the story once through quickly with my monk, trying to group with real people and meet people along the way. The first time through is social and more role playing. I then start a character of the new class and play leisurely at my own pace.

I have my monk at high end areas so I can always find challenging PvE. Most of my guild wars hours are PvPing or playing socially with guildies. Its the people that make the game; there's always something interesting to do if you have a friend playing. If you just want to power through an RPG, you can play Oblivion and WoW provide more grind time and openness. I tried to play Oblivion and I missed playing with people and never finished.

A_Muppet · Dec 19, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

In true muppet style, I'm going to launch into a roundabout post to explain my view on the original post...

I found chapter 2 my favorite, and I'll explain why....

Chapter 1 was, to me, boring, drawn out, and quite frankly, ugly.
We had the pre-searing, to show us what the game engine could do, to show us what kinda of enviroments the game was capable of doing, only for it to be utterly destroyed in the searing. From that point on, it was essentially land with a different colour for the different areas. You got glimpses of the old pre-searing style-you can see it in the woodlands around Rotscale (Regents ascent?) but that's the only place I know off-hand. I mean, the 'jungle' was pathetic-green ground with the odd scraggly tree here and there was simply NOT a jungle.

The game felt very long; this itself wasn't a problem. The problem was the plot felt drawn out-like something a 1.5 hour film plot that could be placed just as easily into a half hour slot.

Sadly, Nightfall is echoing this; the plot was cute first time around, like chapter 1, but like chapter one, it feels very drawn out the second time around. Going through it with my fifth character, I am quite simply, bored. And unlike chapter 1, I can't just skip bits.

Chapter 2 has some similer problems in the terrain aspect-I'm still waiting for an actual forest (Kurzick's forest in Cantha didn't exactly have alot of trees) since Regent's Valley pre-searing, and large underground areas like the pre-searing crypts and SF (Nightfall did have some though, to be fair to it).

Chapter 2's stroyline felt more urgent. With chapter 1 and 3's you feel like you can go on holiday for a while, then carry on where you left off. With chapter 2, they managed to get a real sense that Shiro was working with or without you present, and you quite simply had to move your arse. Also, because you could blast through the storyline and actually 'beat' the game in literally a weekend, it wasn't a long boring drawn out affair. This is important, because it meant your PvE characters didn't have to spend a week playing through a whole game so they could cap one single elite skill. (The 10k faction quest was a real drag however, and I was thoroughly annoyed to see it's type rear it's head again in chapter 3.)

-----
Anyways.... as for the whole 'easily accessable weapons' thing, I remember when it cost 10k for some pathetic little purple sword that wasn't even max damage. I don't miss those days. Many people lament the grossly overblown prices pre-sorrow's furnace. These are (In my experience) the same people who have alot of money and were part of that market.

Pro-Monk · Dec 19, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

There is a vast differing of opinion upon what constitutes a "casual" player verus an "extreme" player and it's overall impact on the game. The OP tries to make a case that the game is "too" easy based upon some supposition about the age of players. Actually, whether a game is challenging, difficult, easy, or whatever has a lot more to do with individual preferences and abilities regardless of age.

The OP describes themself as a "casual" GW player, but then goes on to provide information that would indicate otherwise. It is true that there are people who can readily master nearly any game fairly easily, and it sounds as though the OP may be one them. Naturally, any game that such a person would find "difficult or challenging", would simply be an exercise of frustration to most everyone else.

What the OP needs to understand is that in an on-line game such as GW, it just doesn't make sense to exclude 95% of the average players in order to make the game challenging for the 5% who finds it overly simple. Actually, the OP fails to recognize a key fact, they can make the game more difficult by adjusting how they play. For example, take fewer skills and less heros or henchmen. However, if the game was made more difficult to suit the OP the rest of us would not have the same option to make it "easier".

It is indeed unfortunate that Anet is bombarded by "it's too easy" in the fansite forums. Typically, those that post in such forums tend to be the more "extreme" or "above average" player. Therefore, it's easy to understand that these players want a greater degree of difficulty to maintain their interest in the game. However, I can only hope that Anet recognizes that the vast majority of players enjoying GW are NOT in the "extreme" class. I believe that most "casual" or "average" players would heartily disagree that. overall, Nightfall is as easy or easier than Prophecies.

In actuality, because so many "extreme" players have complained about how easy they find Nightfall it only demonstrates that these players won't be happy until the game is so difficult that most others CAN'T play it at all! Once again, if these players find the game so overly simple why don't they make it more difficult by not using the builds and party makeups that overwhelm any mob of monsters they encounter? One of the reasons they don't do this is due to another factor that differeniates players in GW, the "elitist" class.

There is a class of GW players, many of whom are regular posters in this forum, whose main enjoyment is demonstrating their mastery of GW to other players. This "elitist" class typically wishes to obtain titles, weapons, gold, or other items that other's can't obtain, thereby showing their "leetness". Their desire to make the game "harder" is simply based upon maintaining their elitist status. Unfortunately, many of the elitist type players are those most prone to exploit some part of the game then complain mightly if that exploit is discovered by the masses.

Anet certainly has their work cut out for them in maintaining a balance between the different levels of players. However, they should remember that demographics would indicate that the vast majority of players are neither "extreme" nor "elitist". Should the balance tip too much toward these players, they stand to lose a large following of the "casual" or "average" player.

Antheus · Dec 19, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Leone

This is only one of quite a few things about this game that make me not love it, the level cap. I believe that the fact that the level cap is 20 causes so much lack of difficulty.

Example : I have a friend who has been playing WoW (yes another WoW reference, shocker) for around 2 months on one character and is around level 40. He has multiple characters and from what I understand playing with each is VASTLY different from playing with say your Monk and Warrior through identical missions over and over. In WoW there is such a longer span of time to get level 60 and then once you get there you aren't done! You continue on for a long time and get to some of the real fun stuff. Now the reason the level cap matters is because since we are so low we can't raise it much higher than our own level or else we are screwed. The level cap also ties into group maximum's of 8 and towns and outposts as opposed to a never ending world. We can't take 200 alliance members to kill this level 50 boss (Keeping our cap at 20) which also makes it tough to implement much difficulty.

This is so wrong... So wrong.

There are two complaints about WoW. #1: There's nothing to do the moment you hit 60. #2: WoW is nothing but grind.

Guild Wars doesn't have levels. If you're confused about the number 20, you've missed the whole point of the game.

In guildwars, you have 200 attribute points, and 8 skill slots. No levels, no gear, no nothing. That is the only thing that makes GW what it is. If you fail to understand why asking for 200 people to kill a boss is completely wrong, you have completely failed to understand GW.

Yes, WoW is the game for you. It has levels, so that players win. Not by skill or any other means, but simply because they spent 3 months grinding. That is WoW. Play long enough, and you'll beat it. In GW, think, and you'll beat it.

There are two types of players. Those that treat games like movies: Go in, sit through two hours, eat popcorn. And those, that games like sports: for the challenge of proving your skill. WoW is the movie, GW is the sports.

BSSuperman · Dec 19, 2006, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Is this thread more a case of the original posters vaunting his(her?) prowess as a gamer or complaining about the easiness of a game that is constantly getting updated and AI changing and skills being nerfed or rethought in relation to how players use them in PvP?
Im confused as to the posters intention. Certainly the game is adapted to appeal to the greater masses (thats how the game is gonna sell more - see 3million copies sold) but its constantly being updated to make sure that a 'difficulty' standerd is maintained.

This is in no way a flame or an assumption on the intention of the original poster.

If the games too easy try a naked brawler warrior and get it to survivor status. That could be a challenge?

Theus · Dec 19, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSSuperman

Is this thread more a case of the original posters vaunting his(her?) prowess as a gamer or complaining about the easiness of a game that is constantly getting updated and AI changing and skills being nerfed or rethought in relation to how players use them in PvP?
Im confused as to the posters intention. Certainly the game is adapted to appeal to the greater masses (thats how the game is gonna sell more - see 3million copies sold) but its constantly being updated to make sure that a 'difficulty' standerd is maintained.

This is in no way a flame or an assumption on the intention of the original poster.

If the games too easy try a naked brawler warrior and get it to survivor status. That could be a challenge?

/sigh

That is such a retarded comment. Why is it that in every thread that involves gameplay difficulty some idiot comes in with this.... "suggestion"..

The OP I believe wants an actualy change in difficulty in the game itself.I want to see Dual-Profession monsters with the same PvE ability like that of Heroes in HA.

Pro-Monk · Dec 19, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

/sigh

That is such a retarded comment. Why is it that in every thread that involves gameplay difficulty some idiot comes in with this.... "suggestion"..

The OP I believe wants an actualy change in difficulty in the game itself.I want to see Dual-Profession monsters with the same PvE ability like that of Heroes in HA.

Perhaps it is put a bit too sarcastically, but it merely points out that you can make the game MORE difficult by taking fewer skills, smaller party, less armor, etc. However, suggestions of making the game harder leaves no way for other players to make it LESS difficult.

The Silver Star · Dec 19, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelica

I'm an "older" casual player that find young people; fourteen and over, very nice and helpful.

Sorry i read it wrong the first time, was very funny the way i read it

But seriously ofcourse you get some young people who have no idea whats going on and are trapt in their little world and some of the most anoying people ive met have been older

But i love everybody! and the little guys that draw there e-penis on mini map make me feel good about myself :P

I agree that they are maing aspects of the gam easier but that is because they are trying to keep people happy to buy the next expantion

Hell Marauder · Dec 19, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Level cap's love/hate isn't so simple... Take, for example, why people have fond memory of Prophecy over NF and Factions, is in part due to its slow leveling and progressive challenges. I don't think ppl enjoy post-ascension missions much; many didn't want to bother with those Perdition Rock missions if not for the elite skills (does it sound familiar now?). NF and Factions are dominated by mostly lvl 20 contents, and pvers don't have much to look forward to if they already have max out weapons and armors, even less if elite skills are craps.

Once everyone hits the lvl cap, there's only so much challenge you can add. Raising the level cap will make many old players to buy the new chapter because they need to update all their weapons and armors, which will give them more things to do and incentives to play all toons through storyline. Slow leveling also means longer storyline, which is exactly what makes Prophecy so endearing to many. From a pvper's perspective, level cap is great; but from a pver's perspective, level cap removes so many incentives to play the game, especially for those old toons that already have everything.

For ppl who got bored with the game. My advise is to start a new toon and try to gain survivor title for it (no cheating and buying runs, mind you). It'll be an exciting ride, regardless how many times you've played through the storyline. Prophecy is particularly challenging and fun to a survivor player.